And this is why I choose to make my donations directly to organizations of my choice, much to my employer’s chagrin as my company is a huge UW proponent.

I can’t say I disagree with your train of thought, Brian, but again, the ones who suffer from these decisions are the KIDS – the ones UW obliged itself to SERVE – including those thousands who will never join and will lose out on all the benefits Scouting offers because their parents are offended by the issue.

My philosophy in getting my son and nephews involved is: “You must be the change you want to see in the world.” Most of the time, change comes from within. We do our best to be the GOOD side of Scouting and make the good changes happen in our little corner of the world.

First, let me say that the man is presumed innocent until proven guilty but I presume what you mean is that he doesn’t engage in adult, consenual, sexual relationships with other men. Or that perhaps he was probably a married guy that no one expected was a homosexual pedophile – allegedly.

It’s these people that we need to protect the kids from as well as protecting ourselves from false accusations. I too teach my leaders and scouts about youth protection but often get the rolled eyes when I bring these issues up.

You know, it’s funny, most people don’t see the issue about driving kids home alone from their homes after “play dates” or from Scout meetings until I say – “It only takes an unfounded accusation of impropriety to ruin your life.” Fortunately, this is because most people don’t THINK like pedophiles and my response to that is: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

I am ALL about Youth Protection! http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss01.html

I actively teach my parents and leaders about personal space, latrine sharing (no adult may approach a latrine when there are youth in it and the boys have learned to wait a respectful distance away while an adult is present.) Even sharing cabin space with boys (in an open room setting, of course) is an opprotunity for learning.

Oh and BTW, in reference to the Sea Scout leader molesting boys: I’ll bet Evans is NOT a homosexual.

Now most Scouters, despise this project mainly because it IS separate, there is no reference back to BSA AND the BSA uses the enrollment numbers to boost their numbers of youth served by BSA (so it looks like more boys are in tradtional Boy Scouting than there actually is.)

So it doesn’t surprise me that you’re find conflicting numbers. As you say, there are probably 40,000 kids in the LFL program in the inner city and 40,000 kids in the traditional Scouting program in the city and suburbs.

I keep seeing estimates of 40,000 to 80,000 Scouts in the CoL. (I suspect its 40k in the city and 40k in the suburbs that are part of the council.) The coverage seems focused on a dozen or so full time scout administrator types and the kids helped by the programs never get mentioned. It’s not like there is another comparable organization scaled to handle the same kind of volume of kids.

BTW: The NYT has reported that The Boy Scouts erected the ornate building and since 1928 have leased the land from the city for a token sum of $1 a year. So that answers where the funds came from.

That jives with what the Free Library found in their closed stacks. They checked out the “Quaker City Scouts Yearbooks” for me for the period. They found that: The land was granted in 1928 at which time the Scouts created a building committee to drive fund raising and planning. The funds were donated by “scouts and friends of scouting”. The cornerstone was laid in February of 1930 and they moved in late in November 1930. In December of 1930 a dedication ceremony took place and for the dedication, Thomas Edison had written a letter mentioning that the building was a gift to the scouts from the “citizens of Philadelphia” which I am taking to mean it was by donations and fund raising efforts of the scouts. Thats pretty impressive for a year into the Depression.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_7638441?nclick_check=1

Despite the BSA’s attempts to screen out deviants that prey on boys Scouting will always attract them due to the easy access. Remember the rules: No one-on-one contact. Don’t do it. Don’t allow it.

http://usconservatives.about.com/b/2006/03/16/boy-scouts-lose-docking-privileges.htm

GREAT way to get your message across: “If they won’t stop excluding people, let’s exclude THEM.” (and yes, there was sarcasm in that last phrase…)

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/zeiger/040812

Like Jellybean said; the boys act differently when girls are aound and the affect on scouting is not good. I’ve seen this in co-ed Venturing Crews and even when Boy Scouts are camping at the same campgroud with girls.

If I had more time when I wrote this post I would have focused on how CoL tried to match the city’s policies several years ago and were threatened by National with the revocation of their charter. Also, so I read, that in 2001 at the National meeting efforts were made to allow individual councils the right to set their own policies on this matter but it failed to go through.

As far as how the United Way has acted on this, it really disappoints me without surprising me at all. They are a huge organization and lack the flexibility to address issues the way some donors and staffers would probably prefer. Punishing the organization at the expense of the boys themselves is wrong. I’d love to see a middle man organization apply for funding that would be used to issue camperships to the boys directly and see if that could get around the rigidity of the UW’s national policies.

More importantly perhaps, I realize that regardless of the arguments to be made about city finances etc, you are almost certainly right that boys who are well served by this program would be best served by the city continuing under the established arrangement. Good luck to all of you in Philly who try to see that this happens.

Boys get so much more out of the experience when it’s JUST boys. They are different creatures (more relaxed and looking to have fun) when they’re not around girls. When girls are in the picture, they become a distraction and boys act differently when they’re around. It both amazes and amuses me.

And this from a female Scoutmaster who had to fight her way through the rank and file of the “He-Man-Woman-Haters Club” that was in place when she and her son joined the Troop. Fortunately, she has stamina, fortitude and strong-willed determination and has outlasted ALL of them. :)

I can only speak from my personal experience of course but I continue to marvel at the changes Scouting has wrought in so many fine young men I have had the honor and pleasure in knowing and mentoring while in Scouts. I have had at least two gay Scouts (still in the closet as far as I know) and never once has the issue of their sexuality been raised by the boys, the adults or the leaders of the Troop (s’long as I’m there, there WILL be a place for all in our Troop!) And as far as I can tell, none of my leaders is homosexual but even if there were any, they’d still have a “safe” place in which to “deliver the promise of Scouting.”

I’ve been watching CoL’s dilemma for weeks now via some Scouter lists I’m on and I have to say, it irks me immensely when “well-meaning” PC groups take the initiative to, in turn, bash the Scouts. Why can’t they see it’s the BOYS they are hurting by their actions? United Way cut my Council’s funding by 80% back in 2001 and the Council is still struggling to make ends meet – and our Council is situated in some of the richest counties in NJ! (Morris/Sussex/Somerset/Union counties.)

My dad works for the Council part-time in the Accounting department so I get the inside scoop about the financial woes. Every year, we, as parents and leaders, are asked to dig deeper in our pockets to support the annual “Friends of Scouting” campaign that helps provide funding to keep our Council’s camps running efficiently and to provide “camperships” for Scouts in need so they can attend Summer Camp. No Scout is ever turned down for a campership because it is strongly felt that money should not be a reason that a Scout is unable to attend Summer Camp. UW’s funding used to provide campership funds – now we volunteers and the other parents have to kick it up to help these kids get to camp.

Other Councils have run into similar issues like CoL’s in their municipalities and several in recent years have had to sell off their camps because they could no longer afford to maintain them. Thousands of boys over YEARS of Scouting – poof! gone with the wind and under the blade of a developer’s bulldozer. And that’s not to mention the negative environmental impact in regards to the development of these old forests…

But I digress.

Fortunately, our Council owns our buildings and our camps and improvement projects seem to be going forth – all with the generous donations of some of the wealthier families in our Council who support the initiatives.

Cradle of Liberty CAN’T back down – if they do, they will lose their National Charter and no longer be a BSA Council.

And as far as Scouts Canada – well they let – gasp!! – GIRLS! in at all levels of their program http://www.scouts.ca/inside.asp?cmPageID=83 and tried to make it PC all around and as far as what I’ve heard, the SC is failing and fast. (And yes, the BSA has allowed girls in too – into the coed Venturing program – but they don’t earn merit badges or Eagle Scout rank.)

And we’re already seeing backlash from the backward view of not allowing homosexual leaders – there are so many other organized activities out there that we compete with andall it takes is the negativity of the issue to keep some parents away.

Have you heard of Spiral Scouts (for Wiccans)? http://www.spiralscouts.org/node/10 Their main website says it’s sponsored by the Aquarian Tabernacle Church (BTW, I have a real problem with neo-pagan groups trying to sound like born-again evangelical Christians – come ON! Must you be so sneaky or worse, ashamed?) but Wikipedia out and out states they are neo-pagan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpiralScouts_International They’re an all-inclusive scouting organization. I tried to start up a Circle in my area 3 or 4 years ago but most people had very young children and Cory would not have been able to enjoy it or relate to 5 and 6 year olds.

Thanks again for your lovely words!
~ Jeanne

We may be running a generation behind but I suspect that the children and teenagers of today may grow in to parents who won’t put their kids into programs that they view as intolerant. We may end up with a Red State / Blue State style schism in the national organization at some point but I don’t think things like this crap in Philadelphia do anything to help it along.

-Will

He’ll call me back later today or tomorrow morning. YAY for Librarians!

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_region/20071204_Scouts_ignore_gay-policy_deadline.html

You can also find it on the BSA Legal website about facts not reported by the Washington Post.

http://www.bsalegal.org/bsa-legal-blawg-200.asp

I’ve researched the topic but can’t find any websites that give more details on the original cost and agreement.

I did know that if they did charge rent, it would be adjusted based on capital improvements that they scouts made to the building.

I did find a reference to it on Wikipedia’s Cradle of Liberty Council page but the citation it uses to suport that statement doesn’t actually contain that fact. That section is flagged as dubious in fact. DO you have another source that can support that statement since I’d love to use it in the debate if its verifiable. The Cradle of Liberty’s page itself doesn’t have ANYTHING about that.